Who am I?

[Alexander Kruel]

My name is Alexander Kruel aka XiXiDu. I'm a 27 year old male from Germany with almost no formal education. I worked as road builder, baker and gardener.

Some facts:
I have chosen a lacto vegetarian diet at the age of 13.
I'm in favor of the general tendencies associated with the transhumanist movement.
How I look like.
I like reading science fiction.
I currently play an acarde racing game called Trackmania.
I'm interested in science, philosophy, math, programming, language, consciousness and the nature reality.

What I am doing:
I currently try to educate myself.

Reason for joining:
A post by lukeprog. I'm fascinated by the social aspects of, and interested in the underlying decisions procedures employed by the LW/SIAI (lesswrong.com / singinst.org) community.

Some articles I wrote:
Free will as nonlinear transformational effectiveness
The Nature of Self
Substrate Neutrality: Representation vs. Reproduction
GiveWell, the SIAI and risks from AI
Why I am skeptical of risks from AI
Objections to Coherent Extrapolated Volition

[Ruairi]

heya:D!

[Gedusa]

A post by lukeprog. I'm fascinated by the social aspects of, and interested in the underlying decisions procedures employed by the LW/SIAI (lesswrong.com / singinst.org) community.

I too find these things interesting. I view you as one of, if not the, major serious skeptic of SI's mission/practices, and will therefore be excited to see what you have to say about Luke's post and (hopefully) his discussion with Alan.

Welcome

[Mike Radivis]

Welcome, it's good to have you here. (I start thinking that Felicifia is a magnet for the most awesome minds on this planet ) You are not the only 27 year old male from Germany. The same description fits me, too.

I'm interested in the AI issue, too, but even more so in raising the general level of ethical behavior of humanity.

[Humphrey Schneider]

Hi fellows,

This is my first post in the FF. I am glad to have found this page. I am 22 years old, male and an university student.
According to my reasoning I have become a negative utilitarian although it still contradicts my own moral intuitions. As I know that my point of view is very unpopular I am curious to know how a society has to develop to finally caring about suffering alone.

I am interested in meta-ethical discussions and searching for the incontrovertible fundament of ethics. I am also interested in the value
of non-utilitarian ethics, trans-humanism, population ethics and fighting antisocial personal disorder.

[peterhurford]

Hey, great to have you here!

Some into friendly get-to-know-you-type questions:
1.) Why negative utilitarianism?
2.) What moral intuitions are contradicted by utilitarianism?
3.) How do you handle these contradictions?

As for transhumanism, we have a "Utilitarian Future" section.

As for antisocial personality disorder, we have a thread for that.

As for the fundamental nature of of meta-ethics and ethics, I'm going to shamelessly plug my take.

[RyanCarey]

Welcome, Humphrey!

[Humphrey Schneider]

@peterhurford

Thank you, Peter.

Some into friendly get-to-know-you-type questions:
1.) Why negative utilitarianism?

Typically for an utilitarian I consider positive emotions as good, negative emotions as bad and everything else as neutral. I am convinced that it is only morally compulsive to do the necessary but not the good (to be honest I have problems to manage a possible trade-off between creating pleasure and avoiding pain. I have problems to legitimate inflicting pain on anyone only to create some superfluous pleasure.) I consider an act only as morally compulsive if resting passive is bad. And as I consider only negative emotions as bad and not deprivation of positive emotions (because it does not directly create any state of mind that is bad in itself)I am a negative utilitarian.
Doing only the good I consider as good but also as supplemental.

2.) What moral intuitions are contradicted by utilitarianism?

There are quite a lot of intuitions speaking against negative utilitarianism, like the experience that a emotionally positive experience Has been "worth the pain" or intuitions that say that you are not allowed to instrumentalize people, that life, justice, truth or freedom were values in itself or the feeling that life could exist for a higher purpose. Sometimes but not often I even feel as if people (especially those who treated me badly) would merit punishment.

3.) How do you handle these contradictions?

3. It's hard. I try to live according to my intuitions in everyday life, but try to think utilitarian when I have to make decisions of high expected value. I ponder which intuitions might help me to act rationally according to negative Utilitarianism.

[peterhurford]

And as I consider only negative emotions as bad and not deprivation of positive emotions (because it does not directly create any state of mind that is bad in itself)I am a negative utilitarian.

Where do you draw the line between positive and negative? Is, for example, the joy of no longer being homeless a positive or a removal of a negative?

~

It's hard. I try to live according to my intuitions in everyday life, but try to think utilitarian when I have to make decisions of high expected value. I ponder which intuitions might help me to act rationally according to negative Utilitarianism.

This isn't too far from what I consider to be the best everyday life plan for a utilitarian, that of Hare's Two-level utilitarianism. I describe it here.

~

a emotionally positive experience Has been "worth the pain"

I think something can be worth the pain, meaning that the gain outweighs the pain. I don't think this means the pain was good, though. It was a "necessary evil", so to speak.

[Humphrey Schneider]

Where do you draw the line between positive and negative? Is, for example, the joy of no longer being homeless a positive or a removal of a negative?

Well, I think it's both. The absence of homelessness is a necessary absence of something negative. The joy itself is positive but unnecessary unless it helps to bear and to reduce another form of suffering e.g. hunger or loneliness.